As a whole, I find this style of poem writing different than my personal tastes but very interesting. The fact that it was founded by poets and mathematicians really stands out as not only art that uses language as a medium, but also math. I think of these two methods, Dada and Ouliop, Dada is more toward my sensibility because it seems to have more artistic freedom. Though some Dada works are found poems and shuffling around words, from the examples on the wikipedia page, the examples of Oulipo poetry seem procedurally constraining. S+7 is a fun way to write poetry but it is purely based on whatever words are already written and a predisposed number, whereas there is some creativity in line length in a found poem. Obviously the Oulipo is fresher considering it was founded later than Dada, but a lot of Oulipo is based from Dada. The similarities in having certain procedures, not worrying about rhyme and meter, being irrational for the sake of the work are found in both the Oulipo and Dada philosophies.
Whenever there is a definite procedure, like those used by Dada and Oulipo, there is always going to be absurdity. It would very rare, and somewhat even more absurd, to do an S+7 poem and find a real cohesion in the words used. I think the point of these types of works is to use words in a creative and non-constructive manner; these works are often times rooted in a grammar-less grammar. To use poetry in the same way that we use spoken language is like painting a picture just as it is seen, and Oulipo and Dada try to create new rules, or not, in order to see how far they can contort language with no regard for traditional linguistic comprehension.
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I just decided to write down the first word of every line on the Oulipo wikipedia page...it's not really mathematical but it definitely is void of any true thought, foresight, or emotion
Okay, so I am asking this not as a critique but as a genuine question - wasn't your example of an Oulipo poem more of a Dadaist poem? Or, I guess my real question is, can't this ALSO be an example of a Dadaist poem? Isn't this a basic chance operation (to use the first word of every line)? As you say, it isn't really mathematical, but it sort of is. I know both movements make use of certain, well-defined constraints, but it is my understanding that poets in each respective movement can make up their own constraints, as well. Is it possible to produce a poem that is both Dadaist and Oulipian?
ReplyDeleteYour Oulipo poem sure is something... I'm not sure what...but I kinda like it. I like how all the names are jumbled together to form one really long name... well, that is what it seemed like to me. You make a comment that your poem is void of any true thought, foresight, and emotion. I disagree with that. Although we seem to agree that procedural poetry can be absurd, I don't think that it means that there is no emotion, foresight, or thought put into it. Obviously you have to put thought into anything to be able to do it, but also, I think that every author, whether they feel emotionally involved or not, incorporates some some of their emotion into anything that they write. In other words, our finger prints are left on anything we touch. Good work Tommy! Thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteOk, so I guess my boyfriend was signed into his Google account and I didn't know that. Where it says "Roz said" up there...is really supposed to say "Alison said".... and I guess it doesn't even say "Alison" when I post it... it says "Opalie"... that is my screen name in internet world...So, Kasey, Alison Murphy= Opalie...but maybe you already knew that...
ReplyDeleteKayla's point about it being more Dada than Oulipo is dead on, I think: it's Dadaistic because it's a travesty of the Oulipian technique. What's funny about that is that Oulipo is already intentionally sort of travesty-ish.
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