Reading Silliman's 8 new sentence observations struck me as quite odd, though I was intrigued. Some of the themes of the "new sentence" seemed very inherent and didn't need to be stated. Beginning with the first feature, "the paragraph not the stanza organizes the sentences" seems obvious for prose poetry. I think with my rudimentary understanding of modernism and the movements afterward this conclusion was already made and enforced. Prose poetry by look and creation mostly strays away from the stanza form. The second feature, "the paragraph is a unit of quantity; not logic or argument" seems unnecessary as well. Maybe I am making large and bold generalizations, but it seems like this is obvious.
I didn't get these features or their relevance until they were explained. After looking at the Lyn Henjinian piece, and getting the explanation about the explicitness of numbers and their relevance, things began to clear up. Silliman is not only stating the obvious, but he is sort of giving loose guidelines as well as acknowledging the artistic nature of the work around him. I think pointing out these types of things so that followers of his work and the works of his comrades can notice certain meticulous detail connects the artists as well as admirers. I think of poets like John Weiners and Russell Edson and their prose poetry, nearly short stories, that embody this type of "new sentence poetry" with works like "The Toymaker" and "Ape" as great poetic examples.
My attempt...
The Train Riders
The November air is cold as it arrives. 7 cabins and 14 boxcars follow the head of the proud steam engine. The riders individually exit onto the platform once the rickety doors open.
There are three riders of note. The first and second are men. The last is a young woman with an umbrella draped across one shoulder.
The first man is a banker from New Orleans. This is his annual trip from the muggy south-coast up to the brisk shoreline around New England. His body is stout and atop his broad shoulders sits a massive head with a brow that protrudes like a cro-magon.
The second man is an apprehensive skinny farmer who caught the train in Kentucky in hopes that his fortunes would turn with a trip to the North. His clothes reveal his troubles in the bluegrass state and his stare is tired. He hasn't a place to stay or a person to call, but the change in scenery looks to be a change in luck.
The woman, slender and beautiful has arrived after being beckoned from an old love from before the war. Her belongings are packed tightly in a small chest, save for the umbrella. Her mouth is slack-jawed yet still feminine, while her stance reveals more class than anything else.
Before the three explore their destination a cool breeze arises. A collective chill scurries through the spines of the two men and lone woman. The three of them all think of warm fires and hot meals.
The train slowly pulls away as our three are left on the platform. Looking for luck, love, and
cradling consistency, the three stand for a second and admire the cool before walking into the train station together but individually. The night remains cold through the windows that surround the brick building.
--------------
So I tried to use the numbers thing as a way to anchor my prose. I used three couple of ways: riders and sentences per paragraph, as well as tried to use 21 twice (7 plus 14 in the first paragraph, 21 sentences since their are seven paragraphs of three sentences each). I tried to have every sentence motivate the next but don't know how successful I was in that, and KNOW that I didn't let ideas spill into the next paragraph as they should and I used the "old sentence" form of having paragraphs remain as units of argument and logic rather than PURELY measurement.
Friday, August 7, 2009
Joke
A man walks into a knock knock and asks the owner if he has any grapes
whos there
any grapes
no
no who?
and leaves
a man walks into a knock knock and asks the owner if he has any grapes
whos there
any grapes
no
no who?
and leaves
a man walks into a knock knock and asks the owner if he has any grapes
whos there
any grapes
listen next time you walk in here and ask for grapes I'm going to nail your feet to the floor
listen next time you walk in here and ask for grapes I'm going to nail your feet to the floor who?
and leaves
a man walks into a knock knock and asks the owner if he has any nails
whos there
any nails
no
no who? any grapes?
and leaves
whos there
any grapes
no
no who?
and leaves
a man walks into a knock knock and asks the owner if he has any grapes
whos there
any grapes
no
no who?
and leaves
a man walks into a knock knock and asks the owner if he has any grapes
whos there
any grapes
listen next time you walk in here and ask for grapes I'm going to nail your feet to the floor
listen next time you walk in here and ask for grapes I'm going to nail your feet to the floor who?
and leaves
a man walks into a knock knock and asks the owner if he has any nails
whos there
any nails
no
no who? any grapes?
and leaves
Lesson 11
I was glad to find the meaning behind the Perelman poems, I think in an earlier class I was already told about Chronic Meaning, and find China even more wonderful now that I know the true meaning behind each of the phrases. I like the idea of writing through, because it makes a found poem that much more interesting when something is done to it. In one class we had to make chapbooks and a classmate, Kandi Rock-wal-ski (phonetics only) spliced together two random works of literature and made wonderful poems in the Mesostic form much like that explained by Kasey about John Cage. Sorry about the sidebar. As I further read I can feel myself grasping and losing concepts at the same time. The purpose of language poetry is to make the stone "stony" again without describing how stony it is but rather using some crazy cross reference and circular explanation? Professor Mohmmad is a very smart man? I am utterly confused.
The explanation through modern terms, finally!, however was what sort of brings this concept home. LOL for example is used all the time even when I or others aren't laughing out loud. Someone can say, "I'll be a few minutes late, mom is acting like a bitch" in a text message to me and my autopilot response is "lol its all good" when A-I am not laughing out loud, B-mom being a bitch isn't all good, and C-all good is a much better alternative to "its ok if you are late" considering I would rather have a meal that is "all good" versus one that is satisfactory. I could spiral like this forever since language is filled with accepted metaphors and similes and the common understanding of certain colloquialisms and I guess that is what this whole section is about.
I guess this poem is about the word poem and how it sounds. I'm sure there is a procedure to it but I don't know how to really explain it.
Poem
Po
Po Po
Police
Police Officers
Men and women who enforce the societal laws.
Po
Pour
to transfer liquid from one container to another
Po
Poor
without money
em
um
a place holder in speech, a definitionless word
em
them
those that are not us or like us
Poem
Po-em
Poor them
those people who are not like us because they are poor
Poem
Po-em
poor them
those people who are not like us and that is unfortunate
Poem
Po-em
Pour them
A number of liquids in one container that are being urged to be moved into others.
The explanation through modern terms, finally!, however was what sort of brings this concept home. LOL for example is used all the time even when I or others aren't laughing out loud. Someone can say, "I'll be a few minutes late, mom is acting like a bitch" in a text message to me and my autopilot response is "lol its all good" when A-I am not laughing out loud, B-mom being a bitch isn't all good, and C-all good is a much better alternative to "its ok if you are late" considering I would rather have a meal that is "all good" versus one that is satisfactory. I could spiral like this forever since language is filled with accepted metaphors and similes and the common understanding of certain colloquialisms and I guess that is what this whole section is about.
I guess this poem is about the word poem and how it sounds. I'm sure there is a procedure to it but I don't know how to really explain it.
Poem
Po
Po Po
Police
Police Officers
Men and women who enforce the societal laws.
Po
Pour
to transfer liquid from one container to another
Po
Poor
without money
em
um
a place holder in speech, a definitionless word
em
them
those that are not us or like us
Poem
Po-em
Poor them
those people who are not like us because they are poor
Poem
Po-em
poor them
those people who are not like us and that is unfortunate
Poem
Po-em
Pour them
A number of liquids in one container that are being urged to be moved into others.
Lesson Ten L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E
When I think of "a poem about nothing" my mind races to Seinfeld and then I think of my favorite episode and then the last thing I'm thinking about is poetry...case in point, this very post. I'm going to switch it up and write my poem first.
There it is.
Red apples make crunching sounds.
My favorite is the taller one with the feathers. While
running it devours.
And towers lean.
True enough, she is in rare form.
Wire lays beside the binder. The chatter is mindnumbing.
Is dust dusty? Probably so.
Where there are no lions
there lies the young.
Remarkably, lysol outlasts bacteria.
Infection is the leading lecture.
Whereas potency, has three minds of their own.
Black screens lay beside the wall,
next to the outlet.
Does not compute!
These pretzels are making me thirsty. A phrase isn't a phrase
until it's regurgitated
at a cocktail party
as a bizzare quip
from a socialite.
Organic popcorn,
lightly salted.
The sensation of an electric stapler is comforting.
------------OK
Of the two poems, Bob Perelman's China and Chronic Meaning, I would most closely compare my work of linguistic calamity to China. Chronic Meaning is only the first five words of longer sentences, some of which can be categorized as complete statements some of which cannot, whereas China seems to have complete phrases that are singluar, cohesive, and complete in their own right, yet are completely unattached to the statement that follows. I tried to write a poem that wasn't about anything, but believe I failed miserably. It was a lot more difficult than I thought. I just wrote a bunch of random sentences and hoped that I completed the assignment. It was difficult given the parameters that we couldn't make up words and that we had to stick to regular linguistic format because every American sentence that I know of has at least one subject and one predicate. It takes me back to China, the poem AND the country, and thinking "how can these phrases make sense together?" I don't think the poem is about anything, but it is also not about anything. I don't think that makes sense. The point is not about any one specific thing, but rather it is about a multitude of different things all at once. In Chronic Meaning, the phrases are taken from another work and shortened to the sameword length. Since those sentences are already written and shortened, Perelman is literally using a procedure in order to make the poem. The procedure itself lends to linguistic ambiguity in some cases. I don't really know if it is possible to write coherent sentences and not have them be about anything in particular. If read out of the blue I don't think either poem would make "sense" from start to finish, but in each work there are instances, especially throughout China, where they make sense.
There it is.
Red apples make crunching sounds.
My favorite is the taller one with the feathers. While
running it devours.
And towers lean.
True enough, she is in rare form.
Wire lays beside the binder. The chatter is mindnumbing.
Is dust dusty? Probably so.
Where there are no lions
there lies the young.
Remarkably, lysol outlasts bacteria.
Infection is the leading lecture.
Whereas potency, has three minds of their own.
Black screens lay beside the wall,
next to the outlet.
Does not compute!
These pretzels are making me thirsty. A phrase isn't a phrase
until it's regurgitated
at a cocktail party
as a bizzare quip
from a socialite.
Organic popcorn,
lightly salted.
The sensation of an electric stapler is comforting.
------------OK
Of the two poems, Bob Perelman's China and Chronic Meaning, I would most closely compare my work of linguistic calamity to China. Chronic Meaning is only the first five words of longer sentences, some of which can be categorized as complete statements some of which cannot, whereas China seems to have complete phrases that are singluar, cohesive, and complete in their own right, yet are completely unattached to the statement that follows. I tried to write a poem that wasn't about anything, but believe I failed miserably. It was a lot more difficult than I thought. I just wrote a bunch of random sentences and hoped that I completed the assignment. It was difficult given the parameters that we couldn't make up words and that we had to stick to regular linguistic format because every American sentence that I know of has at least one subject and one predicate. It takes me back to China, the poem AND the country, and thinking "how can these phrases make sense together?" I don't think the poem is about anything, but it is also not about anything. I don't think that makes sense. The point is not about any one specific thing, but rather it is about a multitude of different things all at once. In Chronic Meaning, the phrases are taken from another work and shortened to the sameword length. Since those sentences are already written and shortened, Perelman is literally using a procedure in order to make the poem. The procedure itself lends to linguistic ambiguity in some cases. I don't really know if it is possible to write coherent sentences and not have them be about anything in particular. If read out of the blue I don't think either poem would make "sense" from start to finish, but in each work there are instances, especially throughout China, where they make sense.
Lesson Nine
Catch up time...thats what Fridays are for I guess....
I dont really know how to respond to the ninth lesson without merely parrot-ing back the facts that were given. There wasn't an argument made or a side taken so the post was highly informative but uncharacteristically uncontroversial. I guess I agree with it? One of the main things about the information we were given was the lack of African Americans and women in the two rival poetic anthologies of the early 1960s. It is ironic how poets, at least now, are seen as more "outcasts" and as a subgroup in the literary community yet they were exclusionary in their own right. Especially amidst the civil rights movements of the 1950s and 1960s, it is very ironic that these types of practices were accepted.
As for the decline of poetry...I wonder where and when the form became less popular. Granted, I am no avid newspaper or magazine reader so I can't entirely vouch that a poet WASN'T on the cover of Life or Time magazine in their last editions, I can safely assume. I can think of people who are outwardly against our "war" in the middle east, I won't even get into it's comparisons with our "war" in Vietnam, but poetry must not pack the same muster as it used to since I don't really remember poets, poetry, poetic movement or stance, ever being mentioned in the same breath as war in Iraq. The fallout must have been after the Beat movement since, according to Kasey, the Language poets received little mainstream press.
I am trying to be creative but the only thing that pops into my head is the "I'm just a bill" from schoolhouse rock so I decided to make cut ups of those words, throw them up and whichever words appeared face up would make the poetic line in order from distance from me backward...and the words I used were "I'm just a bill yes im only a bill and im sitting here on capitol hill"..I added all punctuation.
Billy tossed from capitol hilly (shuffled 8 times)
A sitting a yes hill bill just I'm only
I'm on bill yess I'm hill just and
only im here. I'm yes a sitting
only a on,
A bill. Sitting hill yes I'm just bill and on
here on hill capitol and a
hill. I'm only capitol just here a I'm
on sitting here, hill I'm a only.
I dont really know how to respond to the ninth lesson without merely parrot-ing back the facts that were given. There wasn't an argument made or a side taken so the post was highly informative but uncharacteristically uncontroversial. I guess I agree with it? One of the main things about the information we were given was the lack of African Americans and women in the two rival poetic anthologies of the early 1960s. It is ironic how poets, at least now, are seen as more "outcasts" and as a subgroup in the literary community yet they were exclusionary in their own right. Especially amidst the civil rights movements of the 1950s and 1960s, it is very ironic that these types of practices were accepted.
As for the decline of poetry...I wonder where and when the form became less popular. Granted, I am no avid newspaper or magazine reader so I can't entirely vouch that a poet WASN'T on the cover of Life or Time magazine in their last editions, I can safely assume. I can think of people who are outwardly against our "war" in the middle east, I won't even get into it's comparisons with our "war" in Vietnam, but poetry must not pack the same muster as it used to since I don't really remember poets, poetry, poetic movement or stance, ever being mentioned in the same breath as war in Iraq. The fallout must have been after the Beat movement since, according to Kasey, the Language poets received little mainstream press.
I am trying to be creative but the only thing that pops into my head is the "I'm just a bill" from schoolhouse rock so I decided to make cut ups of those words, throw them up and whichever words appeared face up would make the poetic line in order from distance from me backward...and the words I used were "I'm just a bill yes im only a bill and im sitting here on capitol hill"..I added all punctuation.
Billy tossed from capitol hilly (shuffled 8 times)
A sitting a yes hill bill just I'm only
I'm on bill yess I'm hill just and
only im here. I'm yes a sitting
only a on,
A bill. Sitting hill yes I'm just bill and on
here on hill capitol and a
hill. I'm only capitol just here a I'm
on sitting here, hill I'm a only.
Saturday, August 1, 2009
Response to the Rant and 7+
I think the whole objection to using poetic procedures as a way to create poetry stems from the shared, and very conscious, belief that poetry ought to be tied to sentiment. Especially in contemporary life, new poems are mainly seen by large audiences on greeting cards. The poetry taught in most schools is often times associated with rhyme, meter, and feeling. Teachers ask and ask "how does this make you feel" "what feeling is the poet trying to convey" and to have procedures that tell you how to write poetry, not be structure but by content, seems very odd. I agree that procedural poetry in itself is very artistic and should be considered art, but the lack of emotion often times comes off as a lack of creativity.
I believe that coming up with these procedures is in itself very creative and fun. My personal disagreement with "anti-art" as art is the overt brashness. I dislike the "this isn't art...deal with it...evaluate it if u want but u can't" type of attitude that seems to come from the voices within the field, because my personal tastes call for order, objectivity, and direct evaluation. I like being able to push for answers, ask why, and to me poetry, as with all writing, ought to be defended. It is not to say that everyone owes an explanation, but something better than, it is art because I dropped some words into a paper bag and picked them out, seems devoid of any explanation.
Though my views are my views, I completely see the contrary. For one, Dada works of art are incredibly surreal, artistic, unique, and bold in their own rights; and all the aforementioned adjectives make for creative works. I agree that art doesn't always have to be "sincere" to be artistic, but I personally feel that an artist should feel tied to their work and some sort of evaluation should be able to be made.
Thinking of a way to do a +7 for now...
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